Curse

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 18, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I've been running this build in the CAs with a lot of success. Just wanted to see what people thought of it as an 8v8 build, or give any suggestions as to how to improve it if only for the Arenas.

I use the collector's recharge time/cast speed weapons.

Domination: 16
FC: ~9
Inspiration: ~11

1. Res Sig
2. Energy Burn
3. Energy Surge {e}
4. Power Spike
5. Mind Wrack
6. Empathy
7. Shatter Enchantment
8. Ether Feast

For any target with an Enchant, I hit with Shatter Enchant first.

For non-monk casters, I wait for a good spell they are casting (let them cast any crap spells / enchants first to waste mana) and then I try to hit with Power Spike, then Energy Burn, then Mind Wrack, then Energy Surge. Half the time they are dead at this point. If not, close to it. Maybe another Energy Burn or even Empathy if they are attacking

For Monks, same as above, but I try to time Power Spike at the end of the chain for their self-heal. The trick with monks is to get them to spam a couple of heals first to burn some mana before casting the spell chain. If not dead, they have little mana by the end of it and are typically useless after suffering a repeat of the chain.

For W's and Rangers, I use Empathy, then Mind Wrack (both as cover and spike), then Energy Surge and Burn. They usually live, but another Empathy either kills them or keeps them neutralized.

Ether Feast is used for self-heal and to trigger Mind Wrack's spike.

All in all, this build really hurts casters (as most mes builds do), including monks. It can kill single warriors easily. Problems come from other Mesmers; and if there is no monk on my team, Warrior and Ranger ganks pwn me.

BTW, I've used SV/Mind Wrack in combo but it's a little tricky to get to work right. I've found Empathy to be better than SV for spiking W's.

tigernz · Jan 18, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Energy Drain or Energy Surge? I'm a little confused as you mention it as part of the damage combo you're doing.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 18, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Surge, corrected. Duh. TY

antialias02 · Jan 18, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

If you wanted to do enough damage as an 8v8 build, you'd need a majority of your team running this build. Otherwise, you are more likely to end up disorganized - the result is a build that's not quite spike, not quite balanced, but something in the middle. I've seen attempts at a similar build in Tombs, with about 4 or 5 mesmers. It just didn't quite work.

Just as a wild out-of-the-blue idea, I'd suggest trying 7 of these and 1 bonder. See what kind of havoc you cause.

Or maybe 6 Me/Mo and 2 Mo/Me. Also something to try. Switch out mind wrack on one or two for some heals, and switch out Empathy on the others for heals.

Just some ideas. To make this feasible, in my opinion, you need to be able to do an insane amount of damage quickly to catch the other team off guard. Your entire team using ESurge and following up with EBurn would certainly qualify - especially if the enemy team was grouped up.

But only half your team? Maybe not so much.

Lady Lozza · Jan 19, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

I've recently used a double e-surge combo in 8x8 which worked fairly admirably, the only real difference to your build was that my guildie and myself both used arcane echo and arcane mimicry so we could cast e-surge 3 times each, 6 times total. Using glyph of renewel you can get this up to a total of 8 times.

Without another mesmer the above combo isn't workable and your build is what most solo e-surge mesmers fall back on.
I would argue that perhaps shatter hex is more useful, but I think that is a personal thing.
Empathy, I'm not a big fan of it, either you are a anti-tank, or you are an anti-cast, or you are an e-surge, or e-denial. Personally I would swap it for spirit shackles which will punish their energy lvls if they attack, then just spam mind wrack.

agentblade · Jan 19, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

I've recently used a double e-surge combo in 8x8 which worked fairly admirably, the only real difference to your build was that my guildie and myself both used arcane echo and arcane mimicry so we could cast e-surge 3 times each, 6 times total. Using glyph of renewel you can get this up to a total of 8 times.

Without another mesmer the above combo isn't workable and your build is what most solo e-surge mesmers fall back on.
I would argue that perhaps shatter hex is more useful, but I think that is a personal thing.
Empathy, I'm not a big fan of it, either you are a anti-tank, or you are an anti-cast, or you are an e-surge, or e-denial. Personally I would swap it for spirit shackles which will punish their energy lvls if they attack, then just spam mind wrack.

interesting.. 2 mesmers can easily smash 2 monk's energy to bits quickly... just have to watch ur own energy...

Siliconwafer · Jan 19, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

It's not about smashing a monk's energy to bits. It's about keeping them there.
Anyway, some thoughts:
Empathy, even with a cover, in 8v8 is bound to be removed quickly, it is a priority hex.
I doubt you could call this a spike build, it looks very edenial-ish. I'd drop ether feast and empathy in 8v8, and if you wanted to make it a "spike" build, the phantom pain/shatter delusions combo is always nice.

Don't expect to shut down a monk with an E-Surge/E-Burn combo in 8v8. It's good as a source of pressure and damage-unlike Arenas, where you could probably give an inexperienced monk a lot of trouble.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jan 19, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Not being very experienced in the 8v8 world I appreciate the feedback. Looks like the basic idea is decent, but it needs some shaping into a more concise/less individualistic build for a good team design.

It's pretty cool for 4v4, I'd suggest trying it for fun. But it does kinda miss that extra oomph sometimes.

Lady Lozza · Jan 19, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Only an inexperienced mesmer thinks they can tackle a monk alone, and only an inexperienced monk can be taken down by a sole mesmer.
Mostly I use the 6x e-surge to take down a non-monk (usually non-tank - I like taking on necros) quickly. I've yet to find energy to be a huge problem, the main one is recast time. Good team work can get 3 players in an 8x8 down at roughly the same time. As long as they aren't getting a moral boost then once that happens you are almost garenteed a win.
As a general suggestion, though mesmers are good at taking down monks, they shouldn't be the first character they target. If you wait till later in the match when the monks don't have time to regen then you take them on and they go down very quickly. Monks healing others = less energy

and in PvP it is extremely hard to get regen.

sun is in us · Jan 19, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Only an inexperienced mesmer thinks they can tackle a monk alone, and only an inexperienced monk can be taken down by a sole mesmer.

Truth. And when playing a Mes, you quickly find out how experienced the monk is......

Littzain · Jan 20, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

It's a good, simple, popular, and effective build for CA.

But it's not that great in 8v8, you should probably streamline your role more in 8v8.

See, in CA you have to create a build that is a little of everything, otherwise you wont be able to survive. Since you can't coordinate your team, or know what your going in with, you can't have a specific role..

On the other hand, in 8v8, you should focus on one style.
Like: E-Denial, Shutdown, Interupt... etc..